[icinga-devel] Draft - making NDOutils/Idoutils obsolete

Martin Fuerstenau mf at maerber.de
Tue May 19 22:31:43 CEST 2009


Sorry friends,

I started this thread to discuss the replacement of the NDOutils. Now
the discussions is about something totally different. I do not think
thats the way we should handle the mailing list. Or we can use foo as
subject for all.

Greetings
Martin
On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 17:23 +0200, Michael Friedrich wrote:

> From my point of view I would NEVER allow the user to build his own
> queries and maybe exploiting the database - if that example should be
> plaintext and not compiled into a native c binary.
> 
> But the idea is a bit like what I am thinking of for the
> implementation for other db languages. Hacking the libdbi doesn't make
> that much sense cause normal user installs it from repo not from
> source, So the normalization of the queries and the ones which are
> database dependent have to be defined in a header file or somewhere
> else - not even in the plain code, because changing and testing will
> get horrible. So thanks for leading me the right way :)
> 
> 
> 
> Rosecrans, William O wrote the following on 19.05.2009 17:05: 
> 
> > Perhaps some of the existing Nagios philosophy could be used for defining aspects of the database interface in config files that keeps the actual compiled parts of the database interface layer relatively clean.  The definition for the generic sql interface would be as complete as convenient.  Then, definitions for specific sql interfaces would define additional queries, and replace some generic ones.  Straight from my imagination :
> > 
> > define sqlinterface{
> >     interfacename     mysql
> >     driver     mysql
> >     use     generic-sqlinterface
> >     some_specific_action    "Select %Foo% from %Bar% -- No Subselects!"
> >     something else     "Insert %Foo% into %someplace%"
> > }
> > 
> > define sqlinterface{
> >     interfacename     actual-mysql-special_table_type
> >     use     mysql
> >     some_specific_action    "Select %Foo% from %Bar% where Index = Potato"
> >     dblocation	dbserver.example.com
> >     dbuser		MRFANTASTIC
> >     dbpass		1234
> >     
> > }
> > 
> > 
> > Maybe the example explains better than the explanation.
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Axel Liljencrantz [mailto:axel.liljencrantz at freecode.no] 
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 1:33 AM
> > To: icinga-devel at lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [icinga-devel] Draft - making NDOutils/Idoutils obsolete
> > 
> > On Mon, 2009-05-18 at 17:59 +0200, mareadmin wrote:
> > 
> > ...
> >   
> > 
> > > i think, there should be no non-standard-queries at all to keep 
> > > compatibility with as much rdbms as possible ... if this is possible, 
> > > i don't know.
> > >     
> > 
> > 
> > Yes, it would be very desirable. But it is very close to impossible in practice. There are an amazing number of incompatibility issues between different databases:
> > 
> > * Oracle treats empty strings as nulls, other databases treat null and an empty string as two different concepts.
> > 
> > * Databases have extremely different performance characteristics, e.g.
> > you need subselects to get any work done in Oracle, but they are amazingly slow in MySQL.
> > 
> > * Different databases use different rules for case sensitivity, e.g.
> > oracle implicitly converts everything to upper case, mysql is case sensitive on table names but not on column names.
> > 
> > * Different databases use different quoting rules, both for string literals and for quoted field names.
> > 
> > * Most databases are typed, but some, like sqlite, are more or less untyped, which makes them behave subtly different in some situations where casting is involved.
> > 
> > * Bulk inserts (insert many lines into a table with a single query) are not covered by standards, but is a critical feature if you want to insert large chunks of data in semi-reasonable time.
> > 
> > * Inserting a column and getting back the row id of the column inserted is often useful, and also handled differently in many databases.
> > 
> > I could go on until tomorrow afternoon. Databases are a bit of a hopeless mess. Most of these issues can be somewhat papered over with a database abstraction layer, but at a cost in expressiveness and speed.
> > I've seen high-tech abstraction APIs like SQLAlchemy used in large, complex projects. SQLAlchemy allows you to write a database query as plain old Python code, and it then rewrites it into a hopeless mess of buggy, slow SQL in the dialect of your choice. In my opinion, the best trade off is a moderatly thin abstraction library and trying to write most queries in a database independent manner, but making special optimized versions of a few, special queries. I think SUN got it reasonably right with JDBC, though I'm sure others disagree.
> > 
> > 
> > Axel
> > 
> > --
> > Konsulent, Fri Programvare / Free Software Consultant
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> > Phone: +47 - 21 53 69 00, Fax: +47 - 21 53 69 09
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> > Web: http://www.freecode.no/
> > 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> DI (FH) Michael Friedrich
> michael.friedrich at univie.ac.at
> Tel: +43 1 4277 14359
> 
> Vienna University Computer Center
> Universitaetsstrasse 7 
> A-1010 Vienna, Austria  
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